Thursday, June 26, 2014

So I got booted from DUCKS.

Automated Message: Welcome to Narwhals Ate My Duck.
From: Kniht
Sent: 2014.06.10 05:04
To: Longinius Spear, 

Read corp MOTD. Always wonder. Never not do something. Create content.

This was the welcome message I received when I joined DUCKS.

Seems straight forward.

Never not do something, and create content.

I'm a podcaster, I'm a blogger, I'm a solo and team player. I quite literally can't not, "create content".

Granted, my flavor of content is slightly different than your typical group, but to deny that its content would be just silly.

Thats why when I was hauled down to a private channel with Putrudius (director) and asked to leave Ducks it was a blind side.

What makes it weird is all the factors that occurred before that happened.

These are the facts, and I have no reason to lie, who reads this blog anyway?

Day One: I'm in my interview with FOX and Putrudius explaining who I have become and what I do in wormhole space. I'm a solo invasion player, I have enough ISK in game that I don't really need to do PVE anymore, I mention the podcast, the blog.. they all say "Hmm thats interesting" totally UN-impressed.

Honestly I felt like the new kid at a new school. I could impress a whole new group of dudes. What made it super strange was the voices. These were people I had been corp'ed with in the past and their voices brought back all sorts of fun memories. It was like opening a time capsule and having an interactive conversation with it. It was truly surreal.

I app with my Longinius Spear. 

Day Two: FOX asks me to app with my other characters.  I figured, sure in for a penny in for a pound. They are doing some fights and don't have an entrance so I can't move in my stuff.

Few days later: I have been logging in every day into Team speak waiting for an entrance when I notice a common trend in conversation.

The term "Try hard" is thrown around in BNI and I have yet to find a better descriptor for people who take this game super fucking serious. A Try Hard is someone who will make fun of your loss mail because you have T1 rigs on a T3. Not talk about the fight, or how much fun you had, just the fact that you even thought to not use T2 rigs on your super serious space ship. Its still YOUR ship, not theirs, but they some how feel you fit it wrong, you're a noob because you didn't use the total best gear and they want to rub it in, just cause.

That's a Try Hard

It wasn't just one conversation I overhead, it was multiple, and they were not quick Trolling jabs, this shit went on for hours. I have NEVER been in a corp like that.

This has never been my style of game play. Never, even when someone does some crazy shit with their fits, I have never had the gumption to make fun of their loss for hours on end because they fit Meta 4 vs T2.

I wonder how they would view my triple box ECM Armor drake pvp gang?

So I brought it up.

Silence. Like not just a stunned silence but a "I can't believe this person even spoke to me" silence.

Hmm I see,

The entire time, they keep going on and on about SRP (ship replacement program) everything revolves around funding it and what fits are appropriate to even try and get reimbursed. I ask for some JamGu fits, they were provided.

The first one linked is so old that it doesn't even work. I found this out after buying everything for it.

When I brought it up, I was linked a different fit, which I bought 3 copies of. Maybe I will impress my new friends with my Tengu Triple box prowess..

Yea... no... Dual boxing in pvp is VERY frowned upon, if you thought would get made fun of for fitting meta 4, FUCK don't you dare try double boxing.. in pvp.. hell, I can't image what kind of punishment I would get for triple boxing ECM tengu.

Well fuck... Now In a corp with 5 characters... essentially 5 accounts worth of characters I can't use in pvp. I can't fly fun crazy shit, yea. But I still want to be part of this new thing that's happening. 

 I make the quick choice to drop corp with all but one character.

A few days later...

I manage to get my solo character into the DUCKS home hole. Kniht asks me if I need a tab and I want to share some divisional access with some random stranger. I say "Naww its cool" "I don't need that right now."

If I'm only going to fly this 1 approved ship, why bring more into the hole? Why bring more characters in the hole, whats the point? To be made fun off for fitting random welp trash for the fun of it? Naww fuck that. I'll fly the approved SRP approved JamGu. Follow the rules, be on coms, join every fleet from the home hole. These guys are super space serious and I was going to adapt!

Not only that, but I'm not going to store some 650m ISK tengu with some random I don't know my first week in a corp. I'm sorry but the rate in which people are joining the corp and all these strangers around, naww fuck that, this is EVE my shit is going to get robbed. Nope. Not going to do that, I'm not that guy.

I offered to put up my own POS and pay for my own fuel. I was told "you can't do that" "We pay for your fuel and give you a spot, in a medium POS" I asked, "you allow medium POS in your C6?"

Yea, I wouldn't store a fucking T2 in that shit, let alone a bunch of blinged out T3's. You're asking to be invaded and flattened with that crap.

I'll keep my footprint light. Go in with whats required. Try and get a feel for the people I'm flying with.

A Few Days Later... 

Chitsa Jason pulls me down into a chat and asks how I like the corp. I explain that I'm getting a feel for the corp and its pilots. I explained that I felt the "try hards' were thick and I wasn't sure if I liked that.

He laughs, and then says "I plan on getting Bronya and Jack into the corp". I said shocked "I'm not sure Bronya is going to like this"

(Side note: I had already talked with Bronya about my first impressions of DUCKS and he was like "damn I'm glad I didn't join that shit", I explained with my normal optimism "well Ducks may work themselves out, I'm going to give them time")

I told Chitsa I'm taking it easy and good luck with getting Bronya.

This is where shit gets weird. 

Chitsa Jason asks me if I want to be a director. I'm not making this up, he fucking asked me. I have been in this corp for less than two weeks and I'm offered a directorship.

I instantly say no. For a few reasons.

1. I don't want to be in charge of anyone for a long while. I ran my own corp for over a year, it burned me out, I'm glad to not have that responsibility.

2. If I'm a director I'll have jobs, I'll have drama, I'll be doing things other than playing EVE. Nope not going to have it.

3. I have been in your corp for less than 2 weeks and you offer that to me. I instantly thought to myself, "who else has this very conversation happened with" are you fucking kidding me? Does this guy just give director roles to randoms the knows? Thats a super bad sign for joining a corp.

4. I don't know how to be a director for a corp full of try hards. How do i relate?... Do I need to start making fun of loss mails and making fun of people for getting caught solo on a low sec gate? I'm not that guy.

Yea, if I was on the fence about bring in major assets before, that little offering just vindicated my earlier paranoia. Some fucking guy that Chitsa some how trusts can go ahead and offline everyone else's shit, I'm not going to be that guy.

 So now I'm along for the ride. I"m not sure where this is going to end, but I do notice a reoccuring trend in voice coms and mails. 

From: kiachi sukando
Sent: 2014.06.16 22:34
To: Narwhals Ate My Duck.,

Hello Everyone,

So as a verryy new corp mate, 3-4 days now, I have had an extraordinary amount of fun in the fights I have had here (the Paladin kill to name a few). The structure of PVP and FCing is top par from what I have seen. Everyone wants to fight and destroy anything and help anyone they can in this alliance. There is one small issue I have taken notice to which is the lesser motivation on site running. As an amatuer player compared to you vets I do not have the most isk and am struggling to make enough for the skillbooks let alone the ship itself. The money I make I just want to pour into ships to help the community, a dread, to be specific. I'd love to fight along side all of you every bit of the day killing anything in our path but it is hard to do when I do not have the isk-flow that most of the vets, with the important site running ships, have. Id just like to know from all the higher ups, are we going to have more of a scheduled site running (not just when nothing is going on). This will continue to bring in isk for corp and for members alike.

Thanks for the time and opportunity to be here,

This mail really does bring out the type of conversations that occurred almost nightly about how people wanted to make money, couldn't make money because of lack of motivation, ships and or skill. Not only that, but with a 50% home site tax, people can't really make much when it split between 10 + people.

This is the SRP situation.

Hello all,

Starting from today the alliance SRP works in the following way:

All doctrine armor T3s are SRPed at 500mil a peace.
All capitals are SRPed at 80% of their value minus insurance.
All doctrine Ishtars, Guardians, Scimitars, ECMgus, Heavy Interdictors, Armageddons are SRPed at 100% of their value.

Directors or CEO have the right to not give out SRP on case by case basis (stupid losses, bad fits, etc).

All other ships are not SRPed unless case by case basis (CEO or director decision again).

All the previous 100% SRP payouts are gonna be done, it is just question of time.
After the 100% SRP payouts are done the corp tax on Home sites is going to be dropped from 50% to 35% and further down to 25% after corp has 30bil liquid.

Chitsa Jason

Sounds good right? The main trouble is, after a fantastic welp that ducks suffered a few days ago the SRP program went entirely into the negative.The desire to dig out the SRP program for the majority of the corp wasn't its highest. This was felt by the frequent conversations on this topic, who as to blame, was their shit fits to blame.. was it the FC to blame, this conversation went on for DAYS not hours, but fucking days..
Now remember, I don't do PVE. I don't need to and its not why I log into the game. I sure as shit don't want to do PVE for 50% the reward. I did that for THE H0NEYBADGER to build up a replacement cap fleet so I could start wars with people. No wars were started... lord only knows what happened to those caps.

Now I got another person wanting me to esentially log into the game, play their game, give them half my profits and then make fun of my style of play when I do fun shit on the side.

 Not only that, but if you look at the detailed part of the SRP message from Chitsa, you will see what the most common conversation was about SRP.

Directors or CEO have the right to not give out SRP on case by case basis (stupid losses, bad fits, etc).

Now remember anyone is essentially a Director... and on a case by case basis, they could simply deny you this SRP they were taxing the shit out of you for. Great place to hang out right??

Nearly every night, they run sites. Not just in the home hole, but in an expo hole they created. Almost every night. I sit in my 650m isk Jamgu night after night waiting. Instead, its sites for SRP and poor people who lack personal motivation and cry about it constantly.

Tonight: I'm brought in a private convo with Putrudius. He tells me "you aren't working out"."You seem to have your own thing going on and its not the direction DUCKS are headed"."We are removing your roles and booting you"

I'm not going to lie, I was hurt. Clearly DUCKS had some shit to work out, some priorities they needed to straighen out, my solo Tengu character sitting in their HQ POS was obviously different from what they wanted. The only rational was that I wasn't contributing to running sites every night.

Not sure exactly what I was hurting, but simply sitting in coms with old friends was too much for them.

I was more hurt by what the image of what DUCKs was and what its become. Whiny little isk hungry fuckers who just run sites and talk about how elite their fits are. Essentially everything I hate about some 'pro wormhole corps'.

I wanted to change it, inspire them with the actions of my out of corp characters, stories, shenanigans... Nope. Not the direction DUCKS wants to go.

I say to Putrudius "You know Chitsa just a few days ago asked me to be a director right"?"And now I"m being booted, WTF ?!"

He says ... and I quote: "That was a Test" It was a test to gauge your interest level"

I'm floored.. wtf.. a test?! Who does that?

Treat people how you wish to be treated, be honest, if anyone asked me why I left with my other characters I would have explained why. Nope. You're not contributing to the SRP and you don't want to grow up and be in management.

In conclusion: 

Part of me wants vengeance. To simply move into their holes and punish their ISK gaining obsession with a little wreck bombing.  But that wouldn't change them, it would just make people I called friends angry with me and make their life shittier.

Do I want that? I don't know. I want to take the high road, but then again this is a video game. The low road is just as valid.

I also don't want to set a precedent of shitting on people after they find our relationship has come to an end.

I just know that I had high hopes for DUCKs, what they could become as content creators. They may sort themselves out, but not at the rate they are going now.

"A test..." wtf Chitsa.. 


  1. I like your approach to playing.

  2. I always wondered how other wormhole corporations handled recruitment. Apparently one method is insanity

  3. Pay 50% tax. No fun allowed because spaceships are seriouz bizniz (alt spelling to underline importance of said seriousness).

    And wow, Ducks will fly one of 7 noncap hulls. Armor T3 or Ishtar for dps, guardian/scimi for logi, ecmgu/hic/geddon for support. At least you know when you go up against a duck that you don't have to fear anything new, creative or original.

    Getting kicked from ducks is a win-win for both.
    You want to do your own thing and Ducks would hold you back. You are better off somewhere else.
    Ducks is looking for players that conform to the herd mentality so you are disruptive to their vision of how EVE should be played. They are better off without you.

    1. I guess, I didn't really care about the fleets they flew or win/loss. I was really just excited to be with some old friends, then to be booted by one of them... kind of bummed me out.

      And it wasn't like I broke any rules. I did exactly what was asked. I didn't even fuck anything up. I just didn't want to be a leader or run PVE.

    2. Invading your hole Blog: Bringing the power of Bob to wormhole carebears.

      Right there in your banner. You know what to do :P

    3. Pardon the anom post. I'd like to be as objective as possible. I've got no hate or anything about you post, but I think maybe you are having an overly emotional reaction. I'd like to point some things out for the consideration of other readers.

      I think your views on the 'Try Hard' aspect and SRP are a bit skewed.

      When you consider the SRP aspect, what is essentially happening is your corp is providing you with ships to fly. The only thing you need to do is make sure that when you fit it, you do it in the manner asked. It is essentially the corps ship which you get to fly for free. It's not like your being asked to fly a 3b isk T3, most fits are roughly 500m give or take. The fitting can be important not just because it is essentially the corps ship, but to provide those ships with certain standard capabilities and life expectancy.

      Similar in issue would be your Jamgu problem. No one minds a jamgu, in fact there are a few others that are used for ops. The issue isn't that you wanted to use a jamgu. Keep in mind that the corp is clearly defined as an armor corp as most logistics are based around armor repair. The real issue is that you decided to make the Jamgu your only option for any given situation. While flying with an armor fleet into a fight where ships are expected to have a certain amount of armor based survivability, a shield T3 is a liability because it requires vastly more repping to keep up because of the lack of appropriate resists. Also, you're living in a C6 wormhole. You lose your Jamgu today and don't have any other ships, you are out of commission for possibly the next 3-7 days until there is a good HS connection. That's not good for your fun factor or for the corps pvp capability.

      I don't know what happened with any of your person to person interactions, I can't say either way. Some sound unfortunate but I don't know.

      One thing I find curious is how upset you seem to be that people were UN-impressed with your blog/podcast background. I will point out that you were choosing to join a PVP corp and not the associated press...

      For the most part a PVP corp only cares about your ability to help kill ships. For my part it sounds like you didn't show any interest, investment, or flexibility to the corp. Frankly, that would make me not trust you and if I was them, eventually I might have done the same thing. You see, wormhole corps operate entirely on trust. We are cut off from the rest of k-space, we share hangars, even the very knowledge of our location is usually a tightly guarded secret. A wormhole corp without trust will not be a corp for long.

      Perhaps in the future you may want to find a way to better endear yourself and/or your contributions to your prospective corp in the future.

    4. Fair enough, thank you for the reply. Let me address some of your points.

      An overly emotional reaction. Yes. I have had one of those. And can't you blame me? These were/are friends, tell you they don't want you to be in their space game anymore, because you simply do something different. It hurts. I'm human, when you cut me, do I not bleed?! :)

      About the Jamgu being the only ship I could fly and not easily be able to replace it. -- 1st, Heavy armor T3s was nearly every fight other than the occasional throw down in LS where we did silly things in T2 ships. I was OK to miss those instances.

      2nd replacing a single ship in a C6 isn't nearly as hard as you may think and in most fights I would be in High sec anyway after a ship loss because of being podded. In the instances I would lose a ship in combat and not be podded, there were corp leased ships in the public hanger. Guardians, Ishtars.. whatever. So I wasn't limited by what i bought in. If I lost one of the loaner ships, I would have just replaced it. Most corps have something like this.

      I would also like to point out, the single ship I was sitting in was never brought up as far as me being asked to leave. In fact I'm almost positive no one even knew how much stuff I bought into the wormhole, or if I was even in the wormhole. They just didn't care.

      About me being 'upset" they were unimpressed with the past 2 years of accomplishments was really mentioned to point out that I was just a number, a worker bee someone who wasn't going to bring anything other than waves of ships to a combat. Someone to follow orders. They didn't care who I was, what I had done, they didn't invite me to the corp because of ME.

      For comments about a PVP corp only caring about what I can bring to help kill ships. Thats my point of this entire post. I didn't do what they wanted, they never made what they wanted clear, they left it to assumption. If they wanted a pilot in a heavy armor T3 I was willing to give them that, i did give them that. Every character outside of that was never going to be part of the deal. Many of the directors had other things they did outside of the mains in the wormhole. Hell half the director ship were Ice mining in high sec during home ops, and those ice mining characters sure as shit were not in the corp.

      As for trust.. Its a two way street and its split down the middle.

      You don't get my trust just because your a CEO. You earn my trust by backing up what you say you're going to do and making clear expectations. You sure as shit don't embody my trust by "testing me".

      I have been in W-space for easily the past 3 years. Its the hardest space in the game, the most dangerous space in the game. Without friends and reputation, you won't get anywhere. I have proven it, time and time again in very public ways. I keep my word, I do what I say I'm going to do.

      There may a small level of arrogance in my tone and manor, but I'll tell you this. I fucking earned it.

    5. Who shield tanks a Jamgu? Who complains about multiple Jamgu's? Jesus.

    6. Looking back, Did you actually join any of their fleets? If so, how did they go?

    7. yes. Though none of their PVE fleets, which were far more common than pvp during my time zone.

  4. Why would people make fun of meta 4 over tech2? Meta 4 is often 'better' than tech2. Bizarre.

    Interesting read. Thanks for sharing.


    1. You're right about say ECM modules, but for T2 guns/launchers over meta 4, though the meta 4 have less CPU requirements at the end of the day, T2 guns look better on paper. Usually the boundary of fitting them on most ships is lack of character skill points or lack of expensive CPU implants on your pilot.

      All of which are 'make fun of' offenses.

  5. Sad commentary. SRPs and Expos are the death of fun in wormholes IMO. Replace a handful of critical ships (e.g. Guardians and HICs), have a couple corp-owned PVE-only caps, have people run sites in or near your hole when you feel like it, and otherwise make people buy their own ships. Congratulations on escaping.

  6. Hey Spear...

    Firstly, I like and read your blog, like man others. Also, reading this brought back some fine memories of my time with Exhale/Polarized. Many of the group you met and interacted with during this were many people that I've flown with and are long running members of the DUCK Dynasty (associated with Exhale, Polarized., Bitten., Disavowed.).

    Anyhow, I can assure you that what you endured was some of what groups like RCC, Sky Fighters, H0NEYBADGER, Rolled Out, and a bunch others tried to turn away from. We went a different route, leaving the entitled "try hard" deal and jsut having fun, trolling the try hards, and ended up having a great time doing it.

    Alas, all good things must end. But, I can say that I'm disappointed by my friend, Chitsa. Chitsa was the singular person that I met in Exhale that I felt really gave a shit about Obstergo when we first joined. We didn't feel too much like the "new kid" and he really seemed to appreciate us being there. There were other great dudes, but Chitsa brought us into the fold and was very cool... I hope that wasn't a "test" too...

    Hope you find something that works for your great playstyle and hope to see you at Eve Vegas this year. Cheers~

  7. Sad to see that this is the result. Hope you find something better next

  8. So Longinius, are you looking for a new wormhole corporation for your future adventures?

    1. I'm going solo for the moment, but I do appreciate the offer. Thank you.

  9. Having an SRP system in C5/6 space is a pretty sure way of turning your corp into at least a 50% PVE corp.
    SRP in WHs is a waste of time. It's not like NS where alliances have passive income that they can support it with, in WHs all the ISK comes from members anyway so you're literally just adding middle management to ship replacement.
    SRP what silly in 2010 and in 2014 where everyone and their mother can run escalations with ease, it's pretty laughable.
    The only thing that tax should go to for WH corps is fueling shared towers.

    10% tax is high, 50% is a fkn joke...


  10. Yay. Eve Online, combining the charm of nerd cliques with the intense action of database transactions.

    Anyway, their loss.

  11. Sorry to hear this Spear. Finding a place where your thoughts and play style in Eve only comes every so often. I hope you find that place whether it be with old friends or doing solo work.

  12. I love you Spear, sorry for flaking out on you. The caps are still meant for whelping is some manner of YOLO. Your more then welcome to burn one into the ground with us even if your not part of the corp anymore ♡

  13. Long time reader first time poster.

    Just wanted to throw my 2 cents at you Spear. I've always been super interested in Wormholes, I see it as the end game for me. I'm with a null corp that I've come to love and respect, they've taken me under their wing and helped me get where I'm at today but my heart has always been with the Wormhole life.

    I've always had a particular fondness for your blog because I feel like you really personify what's great about EVE. I've come to associate your game philosophy with wormhole life and to see the clash of cultures here in your post has made me realize that there's at least some similarity between the Null culture and the Wormhole culture. There's always gonna be Tryhards, some of them like the smell of their own shit and others don't. You get put in a group with enough people sniffing their own shit after a while that's just all you smell...a bunch of shit.

    Keep at it Spear, you have a knack for this sort of thing and I'm glad you're at least no longer stuck in an environment that's going to stifle what you actually want to do with EVE. Looking forward to more posts from you.

    Any recommendations for someone who may be feeling out the waters for wormhole corps/alliances?

    1. Sure, first imo; is go in all the way or don't go in at all. Commit with all your characters to going into wormhole space. Having an alt in an wormhole corp does two things. 1 of them I proved right here with Ducks, people don't like it. Even if you are at every single fleet op while you are playing EVE, people still feel your loyalties are not sound.

      The other is, if you are going to try something new, don't half ass it.

      I would recommend joining a smaller group that does both PVP and PVE, not one or the other. If you find you like doing PVE in w-space more than PVP you can move on to a PVE only group. The WH community is split right down the middle with people who are pvp and pve. When the two are in the same corp, usually there are arguments and issues resulting in the activities everyone is required to participate in.

  14. Ducks don't deserve a pilot like you Spear, I imagine their implosion is already in progress.

  15. Very surprised to hear Ducks are run this way. Only a little surprised that any WH corp is run this way... Those shenanigans are for null I thought.