TLDR: CCP needs to iron out clear
rules for bad behavior or someone like me might get the wrong idea.
First before I begin my rant. I want
to point out, I was not banned. I don’t know the people who were banned. I have
0 investment in the banning.
BUT! --- I am a firm opponent in the
“grey area shuffle” and the evils it brings. That is why I’m posting this.
Titus Tallang wrote:
can we expect some clear-cut rules
on what you would classify as 'real life harassment'?
CCP Falcon wrote:
"It isn't our job to dictate to people how to maintain a base standard of human decency toward one another, and we're not going to do so.
The bottom line is that it's down to members of the community to know where the line crosses from common decency to harassment. We will not draw a line in the sand so that people can skirt on the edge of it and bend the rules as much as possible.
This isn't a debate about what constitutes "harassment". If you're not familiar with the word, find the definition in a dictionary and that will satisfy your question.
What we will do, is continue to use best judgement on a case by case basis to ensure that real life harassment is kept out of the game, and ensure that those who choose to involve themselves in such activities are no longer permitted to be part of our community.
Cut and dried, that's all we have to say on the matter."
The above post by CCP Falcon is useless,
condescending and it is devoid of clear boundaries needed on this topic.
OK, I'll bite,
Let’s do what he says and move
forward shall we?
Since this isn’t a debate about harassment
and if I’m not familiar with the word, CCP Falcon says I can “Find the definition
in the dictionary” and that should clear everything up.
noun
noun: harassment; plural
noun: harassments
- aggressive pressure or intimidation.
"Harassment (/həˈræsmənt/ or /ˈhærəsmənt/) covers a wide range of behaviors
of an offensive nature. It is commonly understood as behavior intended to
disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive. In the legal sense,
it is intentional behavior which is found threatening or disturbing."
I would like to point out at this time. Nearly everything
done in the market, ship pvp or even talking to another person in an angry tone, could be considered ‘Aggressive
pressure or intimidation’ on one level or another.I might go so far as to say nearly everything done in EVE Online, is just people harassing one another.
Its vague, and that’s why I’m
pissed. You have an entire culture based on being a total jackass (or not) to
your fellow players and suddenly you want its player base to self-govern – OR ELSE.
It’s FAR from "cut and dry". It’s far from clear and it sure
as shit shouldn’t be the basis if someone is banned or not.
Moving on…
This sentence really worries me and it should worry everyone
in EVE.
CCP Falcon “It isn't our job to dictate to
people how to maintain a base standard of human decency toward one another, and
we're not going to do so.”
That’s just it. If it’s not your job, why are people being
banned over it? Clearly at some point, somewhere CCP felt it was their job,
otherwise why are they banning people?
Is this the action of some rogue GM that
wanders around and says,“This isn’t ‘my job, but your banned! Be nicer to
people!” "Sorry, can’t tell you why I’m banning you because it’s not my fucking job".
Being mean to someone and being banned in an environment
that supports being mean to your fellow players, is CCP trying to have its cake
and eat it too. You can’t have both! In this statement by CCP Falcon, they are
trying to have both.
So where do we as the players draw the line?
Here is some hint to were the line is, because at this point
in the game, we just have hints.
CCP Falcon -- What we will do, is
continue to use best judgement on a case by case basis to ensure that real life
harassment is kept out of the game, and ensure that those who choose to involve
themselves in such activities are no longer permitted to be part of our
community.
Well that clears it right up!
“Real
Life Harassment”! That I think is the key.
But here is the crux, since what makes EVE... EVE is
the meta and the meta is defined as things that occur outside the game, that
effect the game, the meta can be defined as something “Real Life”. For those of
you who might think I’m drawing conclusions, please respond with what you think
everything outside of the game is called, other than real life.
I know that’s confusing, but hear me
out.
If I email you in game and say “I’m
going to hunt your character, kill your character, and make your time in EVE shit”.
I have made an in game threat, which I would like to point out, is OK.
Now if I
use voice coms as a medium for my projection of this threat, is this a “Real
Life Harassment”? The threat was made, outside of the game.
We don’t know.We do know, that being a human piece of waste, recording it and posting it outside the game will get your ass banned.
This is where it affects
me and may effect you... My in game victims, might just think I'm a human piece of waste. They may even think YOU are a human piece of waste. They might even go so far as to say you don't 'belong in their community, see ya!
Is it all out of game content projection. IE a blog, or reddit, or the EVE
O forums. All of those things based on precedent
set can and have been construed as “Real life”, based entirely on the bannings
of E1 and his cohorts.
This should worry, every single person who uses voice
coms, blogs, forums, whatever reddit is or even 3rd party recordings
of conversations. Not worried? Really? Since you can't clearly define what is real life/meta and just a digital medium to continue the EVE(evil) so supported in game.. who's to say? O I know.. CCP SHOULD~!
All of these media forms are the meta
of EVE.
Ask anyone who has played this game for any length of time about what
makes this game different than any other, they will say “the meta game”. The
ability for out of game actions ‘Real life’ to affect in game actions. Wars
started by people at fanfest, or fan fest itself. Player meet ups, blog posts,
youtube videos… you name it. All of those things that make EVE what is, are
things that could be defined as “Real life” they sure as shit don’t happen in
the game. It’s a two way street, entire disagreements are sorted out via out of
game conversations. Entire agreements are sorted out the exact same way. IE –
B0tlord accords.
CCP Falcon said - We will not draw a
line in the sand so that people can skirt on the edge of it and bend the rules
as much as possible.
Instead you will let people unknowingly
pass over an ever changing and broad definition of harassment to the tune of
having their accounts banned. GENIUS! That sounds reasonable. Are you fucking kidding me?!
Will this post on my blog get me
banned? Who knows. I might be deemed an unruly subject by this CCP kangaroo morality
court. I am being critical after all, and that could be defined as harassment based
on the definition in the dictionary.
This is an “Out of game” AKA Real Life
post. I guess I’ll just ‘find out” by trying to log in one day I was too mean
in my post.
CCP Falcon said -- What we will do,
is continue to use best judgement on a case by case basis to ensure that real
life harassment is kept out of the game, and ensure that those who choose to
involve themselves in such activities are no longer permitted to be part of our
community.
Lets hope you have your coffee the
morning you review my file, so I might have a chance at a favorable
ruling. Since no one knows the rules,
and it seems like the majority of you are simply flying by the seat of your
pants on this topic. Here's to crossing my fingers if I fit into “Your
community” at whatever moment you choose to review my case.
Don’t think this is a hot topic CCP?
Something you need to apply some level of effort sorting out? Think its 'cut and dry'? Well here is my proof that it isn't;
Check this http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2g24cl/massive_banwave_hits_the_dark_side_of_eve/
It has 500+ comments in less than 24 hours. That’s more than any dev post in
the past year. Think about that! Thats 500+ posts and discussion on this very "cut and dry" issue.
CCP; You need to apply some level of
effort to address this issue and stop the condescending bull shit! See -- CCP Falcon -- “If you're not familiar with the
word, find the definition in a dictionary and that will satisfy your question.”
Really?! Is this really the response of an adult, let alone someone with some
level of power?
Here are some terms you can look up
Falcon – Ivory Tower, Diffusion of Responsibility, Kangaroo Court, Witch Hunt
and my favorite Moral Ambiguity
Conclusion:
I'm at a loss of what I can do to change minds. There comes a point when you just stop, write it off as a lost cause and remember the good times.
EDIT: FunkyBacon Said it better, and with paint gifs! http://funkybacon.blogspot.com/2014/09/as-ban-hammer-swings.html?showComment=1410468600172#c6035375495913092429
Sorry mate but I couldn't dissagree more with you on this.
ReplyDeleteI think CCP is being very clear in their policy and it really should not be that hard to understand:
Do not use in game assets/benefits as leverage for real world items/actions.
At the bottom line, the difference is this:
If I find some random scrub HS mining/missioning corp who want nothing to do with PVP. I dec them, gank them, infiltrate their corp, sit a gank fleet on their station 24/7 ect, that's in game harrassment and it's fine.
However, if I infiltrate their corp, steal all their assets and then go on their comms and make them video themselves running naked around their block and send me the video which I then upload to redit/youtube/wherever in order to get their shit back, THAT is real life harassment and my ass should definitely be banned.
The difference is not that complicated and people should be intelligent enough to figure that out by now.
Jack Miton
Prison is filled with people who were not intelligent enough to self govern in society. OR... filled with people who forced into a grey area and lost. Since a court of our peers often determines what is right and what is wrong in that grey area, we as a society can usually say, justice is done.
DeleteI'm not saying we need a court, but some level of rules besides a blanket statement "you should be smart enough to figure it out' needs to go a little farther.
Surprising post.
ReplyDeleteAnother Redditor said it best IMO. "CCP wants space villains; dastardly pirates, scheming double-agents, amoral mercenaries. Not internet bullies."
All sounds simple enough to me.
If the issue is more clarity on the rules, I think that's fair enough and I'd ask the playerbase to iterate on the language, personally. If the issue is Falcon's response then I think you're wilfully misinterpreting his reply on EveO.
Do you believe there should be no limits on player interaction in or outside of Eve?
It gets, complicated.
DeleteIn a perfect world CCP should have 0 interest in what happens out side of its game. Why would they? What do they care what I had for dinner, or who I talk to or if I'm arrested as a habitual shoplifter. None of these factors should have any impact what so ever for EVE ONLINE or the people who work in EVE Online.
Their over arching attempts to control the player base and not the characters is worrying.
In a not so perfect world in which we live in, popular opinion of a game needs to be monitored, stories of RL people doing RL things to one another doesn't bring a good name to the game.
This is a two way street, if you crack down too hard, you are removing the danger from the game. If you don't, you fill a game with internet bullies.
Its not an easy task, but its a task that needs to have a greater level of support and clarity by its creators. THAT is what I'm saying.
I do think you are jumping somewhat at shadows here. I see your point and think ccp could have worded themselves better. However I think ccp has done the right thing and have a reasonable approach to the bans they enforce. The fact that some of these bans are an aftermath of the bonus room is an example to ccp's willingness to do a proper investigation before issuing a ban.
ReplyDeleteRegarding your main issue of the line. I feel they have held a firm policy here. You can do whatever you like towards ingame characters, corp, alliances or assets. But you can not do whatever you like towards the players themself. No matter the media the action is performed through.
Could CCP be better at preamptive efforts? Not sure to be honest.
I couldn't agree more with your post!
Delete